Journals of the Senate
47 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1998, Canada
Journals of the Senate
Issue 90
Wednesday, November 4, 1998
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Bacon, Balfour, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forrestall, Fraser, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnstone, Joyal, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, Lavoie-Roux, Lawson, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Maloney, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Phillips, Pitfield, Poulin, Prud'homme, Roberge, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Watt, Whelan, Wilson
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, *Austin, Bacon, Balfour, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Forrestall, Fraser, Ghitter, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnstone, Joyal, *Kelleher, Kelly, *Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, *Kirby, *Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, Lawson, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Maloney, *Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, *Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Phillips, Pitfield, Poulin, *Poy, Prud'homme, Roberge, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, *Taylor, *Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wilson
PRAYERS
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Government Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:That all Committees have power to sit while the Senate is sitting today, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Motions
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser:That the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be authorized to examine and report upon the expenditures set out in the Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1999, with the exception of Parliament Vote 10b and Privy Council Vote 25b.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gill:
That the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament be authorized to examine the expenditures set out in Parliament Vote 10b of the Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1999; andThat a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wilson:
That the Standing Joint Committee on Official Languages be authorized to examine the expenditures set out in Privy Council Vote 25b of the Supplementary Estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending March 31, 1999; andThat a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House accordingly.
After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Private Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Reports of Committees
Consideration of the Twenty-sixth Report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (supplementary budget-Social Affairs, Science and Technology Committee), presented in the Senate on October 29, 1998.The Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C. moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hays, that the Report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.Orders No. 2 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 84 (motion), 1 (other), 88 (motion), 42, 23, 41 (inquiries), 45, 1 (motions), 39 and 35 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Ghitter calling the attention of the Senate to the concerns expressed by Albertans with regard to the Senate as an institution: (a) its effectiveness, usefulness and viability; (b) alternative means by which to select members of the Senate; (c) the nature of its regional representation, particularly a desire to see equal numbers of Senators representing each province; (d) the length of term of office; (e) the role which a revised Senate might take at a national level; and (f) the powers which would be appropriate for it to exercise in harmony with the House of Commons.
After debate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia), that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Simard calling the attention of the Senate to the current situation with regard to the application of the Official Languages Act, its progressive deterioration, the abdication of responsibility by a succession of governments over the past ten years and the loss of access to services in French for francophones outside Quebec.After debate, The Honourable Senator Losier-Cool moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ferretti Barth, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.Order No. 37 (inquiry) was called and postponed until the next sitting.
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Pursuant to Rule 7(2), the sitting was suspended until 5:15 p.m.The sitting resumed.
DEFERRED DIVISIONS
At 5:30 p.m., with leave of the Senate and pursuant to Rule 30, the form of the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Cools to the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore for the third reading of Bill C-37, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as amended, was modified to read as follows:That Bill C-37, as amended by the Fourteenth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, be not now read a third time, but that it be amended in clause 5 by adding, after subsection 26(7), the following:
"(8) Nothing in this Act abrogates or derogates from any of the privileges, immunities and powers referred to in section 4 of the Parliament of Canada Act or section 18 of the Constitution Act, 1867 or from the authority of the Parliament of Canada to fix the salaries, allowances and pensions of judges under section 100 of the Constitution Act, 1867."The question being put on the motion in amendment, as modified, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Atkins, Balfour, Berntson, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Forrestall, Ghitter, Gustafson, Keon, Kinsella, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Murray, Phillips, Rossiter, Simard, Stratton-23NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Bacon, Beaudoin, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cook, Corbin, DeBané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Fraser, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnstone, Joyal, Lawson, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Nolin, Pearson, Poulin, Prud'homme, Roberge, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Ruck, St. Germain, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Watt, Whelan, Wilson-44,ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
The Senate then proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion in amendment to the motion of the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ruck, for the third reading of Bill C-29, An Act to establish the Parks Canada Agency and to amend other Acts as a consequence.The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Ghitter, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that the Bill be not now read the third time but that it be amended:
1. in the preamble, on page 2, by replacing line 29 with the following:"(l.1) to effect the conservation of ecosystems and natural areas that extend beyond national park boundaries by working in co-operation with adjacent landowners, and being involved in research, environmental assessment and planning processes within the region, and".
2. on page 8, by adding after line 8, the following:"12.1 (1) The Minister shall appoint a Consultative Committee consisting of 12 persons with expertise in park management and conservation biology and interested in matters for which the Agency is responsible to hold office for a term of no more than five years.
(2) The Consultative Committee shall, at least once in each quarter of the calendar year, meet with the senior management officials of the Agency for the purpose of discussing any issues of national interest related to the management of national parks, national historic sites, and other protected heritage areas and heritage protection programs.(3) No member of the Consultative Committee may receive pecuniary gain or remuneration for service in connection with the Agency but members may be paid for any reasonable out-of-pocket expenses incurred by them for services rendered to the Agency.".
3. in Clause 32, on page 15:(a) by adding the following after line 15:"(1.1) The Agency shall, before any management plan referred to in subsection (1) is provided to the Minister under that subsection, hold a public hearing to hear all persons having an interest in and wishing to be heard in connection with the management plan.";
(b) by replacing line 18 with the following:
"protected heritage area every two years and"; and
(c) by adding the following after line 21:"(3) A public hearing to hear all persons having an interest in and wishing to be heard in connection with any amendments made to the management plan shall be held before any amendments are tabled in either House of Parliament.
(4) The Agency has, in relation to any public hearing under this section, the powers of a Commissioner under Part I of the Inquiries Act.
(5) A public hearing under this section may be held at such place in Canada or at such places in Canada by adjournment from place to place as the Agency may designate.(6) The Agency shall give notice of any public hearing under this section in the Canada Gazette and in one or more newspapers in general circulation throughout Canada, and in particular in those areas of Canada where, in the opinion of the Agency, there are persons likely to be interested in the matters to be considered at the hearing.".
The motion in amendment was negatived on the following division:YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Balfour, Beaudoin, Berntson, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Forrestall, Ghitter, Grimard, Gustafson, Keon, Kinsella, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Murray, Nolin, Phillips, Roberge, Rossiter, St. Germain, Simard, Spivak, Stratton-29NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Bacon, Bryden, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cook, Cools, Corbin, DeBané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Fraser, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnstone, Joyal, Lawson, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Poulin, Prud'homme, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Ruck, Stewart, Stollery, Watt, Whelan, Wilson-38ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for thethird reading of Bill C-37, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as amended.The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Bill, as amended, was then read the third time and passed.Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, with certain amendments, to which they desire their concurrence.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick, seconded by the Honourable Senator Ruck, for the third reading of Bill C-29, An Act to establish the Parks Canada Agency and to amend other Acts as a consequence.The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Phillips, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Cree-Naskapi Commission for the year 1998, pursuant to the Cree-Naskapi (of Quebec) Act, S.C. 1984, c. 18, sbs. 172(2).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-902.ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hays:That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted._________________________________________
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and OrdersThe name of the Honourable Senator Sparrow substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Pearson (November 3).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional AffairsThe name of the Honourable Senator Grafstein substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Pépin (November 3).
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and TechnologyThe names of the Honourable Senators Gill, Johnstone and Poy substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Mahovlich, Ferretti Barth and Gill (November 3).
Special Committee of the Senate on Transportation SafetyThe name of the Honourable Senator Mercier removed from the membership (November 3).
Standing Joint Committee for the Scrutiny of RegulationsThe name of the Honourable Senator Mercier removed from the membership (November 3).